A few lore questions

[takakenji]

I'm going to be making a secondary project, a campaign, while my first (Warcraft: Apocalypse) is currently being terrained and not in my hands. First, I need a few lore questions which i'm not 100% sure about and have forgotten over the years.

1. Was Ner'zhul alive during the Draenei Orcish wars? Also, if someone can give me a sequence of important events in it, it would really help. (All I can remember is the Battle of Shattrath)

2. What exactly happened during the "Rise of the Horde"?

3. Around what time did the Temple of Karabor become Black Citadel/Temple?

more questions to come later.

 

[Wolfe]

Personally, PM Alagremm with these questions. He's the big Draenor buff.

 

[Levdragon]

1. Yes he was, he in fact got the orcs to drink the blood and turn into greenskins.

2. Well you read it on wowwiki most likely but what happened was that Ner'Zhul and Gul'Dan got the orcs to drink the blood of Manneroth. Then with their new bloodlust he ordered them to attack the dranei and other races of Draneor to conquer their new lands. But then after the war they were still vying for war so they started to fight one another. Gul'Dan feared this so he created the shadow council (well maybe just strengthened it) and put a puppet, Blackhand to unite the horde together for a new campaign in a new world (azeroth).

3. When it got defiled, Ner'Zhul and Gul'Dan started to use their new warlock magics most likely corrupting it. Also by the second the war is most definetly was corrupted so somewhere between The Rise of the Horde and Pre-Second War.

Hope that helped

 

[takakenji]

thanks!

 

[AIagremm]

Levdragon you got some mistakes here.

1.Yes, but it wasnt he who ocnvinced orcs to drink the blood. Sequence of events:
-Ancestors tell Ner'zhul that draenei are enemies.
-Orcs gather and decide to go to war.
-Elements abandon orcs.
-Telmor is attacked
-Ner'zhul finds out that demons and Gul'dan have sealed the spirits in Oshu'gun.
-Gul'dan teaches orcs warlock magics.
-Orcs conquer Temple of Karabor and turn it into Black Temple
-Ner'zhul sends Durotan a message about the betrayal of Gul'dan
-Gul'dan corrupts the horde with demon blood
-The Horde attacks Shattrath City
-Draenei survivors go to hide in Zangarmarsh
-Orcs corrupt the Hellfire Peininsula and Shadowmoon Valley
2.Corruption of orcs by the demon for the purpose of destroying the draenei
3.Black Temple was corrupted right after it was captured, even before the fall of Shattrath.

 

[Levdragon]

No Ner'Zhul made the first pact with the demons, his apprentice Gul'dan carried it out though. Also the orcs only attacked the dranei after they had been corrupted.

 

[AIagremm]

Ner'zhul began the corruption of orcs, but he only followed demon's orders, he was fooled. After he found out he was completely replaced by Gul'dan and the orcs were corrupted after that.

They have been corrupted by warlock magic after attacked the draenei and corrupted with demon blood right before the final battle.

 

[Levdragon]

Yep you summed it up but I always thought and read that they were peaceful until they become bloodthirsty.

 

[AIagremm]

Well lore about that time is quite weird, there are 3 or 4 sources that claim different things.

 

[Levdragon]

Well you are the lorekeeper, your word is law

 

[takakenji]

thanks you both, +rep to each

 

[takakenji]

another question

i know draenors sea was green, was it's rivers green too? in WoW nagrand's waters are the normal bluish

 

[AIagremm]

I believe the sea had various colors, from green to blue. I think that rivers were blue, while sea was green because of something in it. It is highly possible that it became green after corruption.

 

[Levdragon]

Well sometimes our oceans look green also. Maybe because of the chemical makeup and all the rubbish that goes in it? I believe nagrad isn't corrupted so its waters are blue. Maybe make the oceans a lightish-blueish colour? Don't make it pure blue like Nagrads ones since those are just lakes.

 

[AIagremm]

Well I think that there is some sort of mineral in the sea that makes it green or some sort of organism, however most likely they were just corrupted.

 

[Levdragon]

Yeah what a beautiful planet D: Stupid legion...

 

[AIagremm]

Stupid Teron who ocnvinced Ner'zhul to rip the planet apart. If Ner'zhul wasnt influenced by him, Draenor would heal in time and Ner'zhul could save it.

 

[Levdragon]

Poor Ner'Zhul he got influenced pretty much every single leader of the horde XD. Hey was he more powerful then Gul'Dan, just wondering? He was his mentor but Gul'Dan did achieve a higher status then Ner'Zhul.

 

[AIagremm]

Ner'zhul was really powerful. However Gul'dan was given powers and tought ways of warlocks by Kil'jaeden.

 

[Levdragon]

So which ones stronger XD ? Or are they evenly matched?

 

[Wolfe]

Do not forget, we do not know much about the sky in Draenor. Perhaps something in the sky influenced the ocean's colour, perhaps a planet or moon or star that stood out quite clearly?

Ner'zhul had shamanistic powers, which may have abandoned him during the draenei genocide, whereas Gul'dan dabbled (and learn't) fel magic.

 

[Levdragon]

Still doesn't answer, which ones strongest ? :O

 

[AIagremm]

WHo still exist and who is long dead?

Also Ner'zhul is strong, even after spirits left him, he could control elements using his own magic.

 

[Levdragon]

Wasn't that only because of the demon's curse put onto him. BTW his spirit didn't leave him, he left his body.

 

[Wolfe]

No, Alagremm was referring to the elemental spirits.

I have to say, though, Ner'zhul might have been the strongest. Even after his "imprisonment", he was very powerful (be it through his powers of persuation or control over the Scourge).

 

[AIagremm]

Ner'zhul is the coolest! Too bad he was making mistakes all the time. If he though a bit after Dark Portal was closed he would try to redeem orcish race and Draenor. Draenor would be cool as in old times, draenei would return and the world would be even better the before!

 

[Wolfe]

... Legion would've demolished Azeroth, though. And I know you like Draenor, but I really like Azeroth. v.v

 

[Levdragon]

Lol @ us taking over this thread. Yeah well I think Ner'zhul is happy with his newfound powers and his servants which never betray. He paid a price for his new body though. He now doesn't control the entire scourge but its better then being trapped in a cube.

Back to the question of waters I think we've concluded that:

1.Water is not blue because it is unlikely that the entire ocean would have been corrupted, especially near areas that aren't corrupted (i.e blades edge mountains)
2.Water is lightish-greenish in colour because of either an outer planetary influence (moons) or the elements/mineral compound of the water of Draenor.

 

[AIagremm]

Azeroth is good and all, but... Draenor is neater.

 

[Levdragon]

Hey doesn't outlands remind you of mars ^^

 

[Wolfe]

In certain ways, both worlds are their good aspects and their bad aspects. Without Azeroth, the orcs would've become brutish soldiers of the Burning Legion and Draenor would be in eternal hellfire.

 

[AIagremm]

Outland sucks! Draenor rules!

If Draenor wasnt destroyed and Azeroth was fine everything would be neat-o!

 

[Levdragon]

Yes but then they'd be no warcraft O_O *DUN DUN DUN*

 

[AIagremm]

No I mean if they were connected, but Draenor wasnt destroyed.

 

[Levdragon]

Well then the wc2 expansion would be worthless, hey maybe there would be no WoW. Stupid Ner'zhul having to ruin lore fans by making is possible for Blizzard to make WoW -_-

 

[AIagremm]

No, all would be the same, but Draenor wouldnt be destroyed in the end!

 

[Levdragon]

Damn I was hoping WoW would have been destroyed when Draenor fractured :/

 

[takakenji]

alright, i have another question

how exactly did kil'jaeden teach the orcs warlorcks? i know he disguised himself as ner'zhuls wife's spirit and manipulated ner'zhul, but how did the orcs react to it at first? Were they positive or negative and did all the shamans become warlocks immediately or over time?

Also, who was the one that declared war on the Draenei, was it kil'jaeden disguised again or...?

and, when did the orcs drink the blood of mannoroth and get green skin, before or after the draenei wars?

 

[Levdragon]

Ok Kil'jaden manipulated the orcish spritual leaders such as Ner'Zhul to drink the blood as it gave them newfound powers. Like most real life decisions there were positive and negative reactions to the blood drinking but many orcs were persuaded when their leaders drank the blood. Really this was all Ner'Zhuls fault as he was the one who persuaded the leaders to drink the blood but then Gul'Dan become the first warlock I believe as Ner'Zhul stuck to shaman magics.

So it was either Gul'Dan or Ner'Zhul who declared war on the Draenei but of course under the influence of Kil'jaden who had been searching for the Draenei for many many centuries.

Edit: I've just confirmed that Ner'Zhul orginally made the first contact with Kil'Jaden but turned away once he realised Kil'Jaden inteneded for the orcs to be slaves. Gul'Dan then served to make the orcs bloodthirsty (not the blood pact yet) by creating warlocks. This also made the planet wither and decay turning the water dark green and the soil into red barren wastelands. Then Kil'Jaden helped Gul'Dan found the shadow council which spread the warlocks magics amongst other ocs (Gul'Dan being the first warlock). Eventually their race was as bloodthirsty as they'd ever be but to make them the legion's slaves he made them summon Manaroth and drink the blood. When this was done their next task was to conquer Draenor.

 

[takakenji]

did their skin turn green from warlock magic or the blood?

 

[Levdragon]

The blood I'd presume because when blood elves and orcs drink it they turn into their fel counterpart.

 

[AIagremm]

Your second variant is right.

The warlock magic actually was the cause of the green skin and that explains why Durotan and Ner'zhul who never drank blood became green. The blood only made them bloodfirsty and accelerated the process of corruption.

 

[Levdragon]

Ner'zhul drank the blood? If not it was most likely retcon because frostwolfs have green skin even though they never delved into warlock magics. :/

 

[Traxamillion]

damnit im late tot he lore party anyway about the Ner'zhul thing.

Kil'jaeden came to Ner'zhul in his dreams and was able to manipulate ner'zhul by creating a false image of Ner'zhul's deceased mate. Ner'zhul did everything he asked. Then when he realized that Kil'jaeden's motives were to corrupt the orc clans, Ner'zhul trie dto end it but Gul'dan had overheard the dreaming conversations and carried out Kil'jaeden's orders and Gul'dan silenced Ner'zhul.

Thats what happened in the Rise of the Horde book.

By the way the green skinn affected all orcs as a symbol of corruption, thats why everyone involved with the warlock magic the surrounding clans were all effected especially upon arrival throught the dark portal, the clans that were distant were ones liek the Mag'har (brown orcs)

 

[AIagremm]

Yes, thats what Im talking about. Levdragon I said Ner'zhul never drank blood.

Mag'har were sick with a very powerful disease and that is why they were in a small quarantine village. There werent any warlocks there and no one had power over people in Garadar, that is why they are uncorrupted to this day.

 

[Traxamillion]

Ya Ner'zhul didn't drink demon blood, nor did he even eat or anything, we was disgusted with what he had done, so he just wanted to wither away.

Hellscream was the First to drink Mannoroth's blood then the other cheiftens.

 

[AIagremm]

If only Ner'zhul was stronger! Draenor would be restored and orcs and draenei saved!

Even if he did that after the Second War, before the Invasion of Draenor he would have saved Draenor! But no, he followed Teron Gorefiend's idea and so he destroyed Draenor and became evil instead of coming out of his hut and beginning to cleanse Draenor! If only he rallied the orcs to Nagrand, Terrokar, Zangarmarsh, Blade's Edge and Farahlon and began to cleasance Draenor and Hellfire Peninusla and Shadowmoon Valley! If he returned to shamanism and banned warlocks it would be awesome!

 

[Levdragon]

Blizzard has gotten themselves into another ditch because if green orcs drink blood they turn red > . > So if they were already green they why didn't they turn red? :/

 

[takakenji]

they werent already green, they were brown.

thats why uncorrupted orcs are still brown.

 

[Levdragon]

Yes I know but what I mean is if they were green before they drank the blood as previously stated then shouldn't they have turned red instead of remaining green?