"Project WarSoc"

[DesKaladA]

yes it is a spectialy made program that uses winscok and i beleve dx hooks to do its actions

 

[Herman]

Oh

Yeah I wouldn't have a clue what either of those are, but this should be ill when it's finished

 

[Darkholme]

What's the project status percentage-wise? and what language is it in? I'm guessing C/C++. Big project, but it would be sweet if this was done by september. Hell, I'd be willing to help in the summer.

 

[MindWorX]

It's coded in c++ yea. Most of RtC is actually working fine. Only thing we need to fix which is pretty buggy, is the fact that all our custom events are bad to say the least, but we're working on improving them.

 

[Darkholme]

If you want some help in the summer I have coding experience. Not in C++ but java is pretty close syntactically, it's just small differences and different code libraries. I've also done a little bit of C# and alot of VB.Net. As for non-programming languages, I've worked with graalscript, nwscript, jass, javascript, xml(if it counts) sql, html, and css. So yeah. Coding is something I do. Coding and graphics. I really need to get into game design (I just came that realization and I'm switching all my university stuff to computer science). (And I already have college level computer science, thats where alot of the coding ive done comes from)

 

[Infinitynexus]

Java? please go away and stop pretending to be an actual programmer..

 

[Darkholme]

Java? please go away and stop pretending to be an actual programmer..

If you're kidding, not a very funny joke. And if you're serious, C++ and java are very similar, and both are "actual programming languages".

Would I have preferred to learn C++? Yes.
Was it offered when I took Java in Highschool? No.
At the college where I took VB.Net/XML/Java/Javascript/SQL/C#/CSS/HTML? Nope.
How much time did the college allow us to work in C# (closest thing they had to c++) before telling us we had to go back to VB.Net? About a Week.

Just because C++ is used more for games doesn't mean that everywhere teaches it. Most business apps are made with VB.Net because of all the functions and libraries it includes for web access and cross communication with web pages. Plus the graphical form design which makes applications look like microsoft applications which people are familiar with. Hell, now that I'm switching BACK into computer science as a major, and I have to take their intro course (which will be a breeze as it's intended for people without computer science background), Again they're having us use Java.

Yes it's frustrating, because I would imagine I'd have much more use for C++ as game design is what I plan on going into professionally, but nowhere is offering C++ at the moment.

Out of all the courses I will be taking in the next 3 years, one says it will cover C (not C++), and one says it will cover either C++, Java, or Smalltalk. About half of them don't say the language they will be working in (as they're largely theoretical, such as a course on Artificial Intelligence, or a Course on the Analysis of Algorithms).

If you have gone to college for computer programming, you are "an actual computer programmer"

Programming language that's NOT a programming language, "Turing". I took that too, it was useless. That's why I didn't list it.

Java can be compiled into native executables for Windows or what have you. You just can't use the default compiler.

I've gone to College for Web and Database programming, I'm in university for a Bachelor of Science with a major in Computer Science and A Minor in Game Design. That's 10 Computer Science credits out of the total 20 credits (I'll have 21 credits when I graduate, and you need math too). Out of those 10 credits 6.5 of them are software, 1 is graphics, 1.5 are hardware, and .5 are about OSes and .5 comes from a Visual Arts Drawing Class (for the Game Design Minor). Don't try to tell me I'm NOT an "actual programmer". There's my rant. you struck a nerve.

Related to the university note is that I will also have a minor in Japanese, and half the credits necessary for a Minor In Visual Arts, for which I may stay a 5th year to have 3 minors.

 

[Craka_J]

C++ is by far a lot better though. Plus Java is old and best for websites or mini-games really. In with the new (C++) and out with the old. C++ will get you a lot farther than C++ will, game-wise/third party program-wise at least.

Just because they're both programming languages doesn't mean they're similar.

~Craka_J

 

[Darkholme]

C++ is by far a lot better though. Plus Java is old and best for websites or mini-games really. In with the new (C++) and out with the old. C++ will get you a lot farther than C++ will, game-wise/third party program-wise at least.

Just because they're both programming languages doesn't mean they're similar.

~Craka_J

They have similar syntax and are coded similarly. They do have quite a few difference I agree. But Proficiency in one allows easier transfer to the other, you just need to learn the differences instead of learning everything from scratch.

And C++ is old too, it just rans faster than java so more things are made in it/made compatible with it. if newness mattered everyone would program with .net (which many do, but not usually game designers)

 

[Herman]

Actually

Recently I read a few pages off of a C programming book from the 90's, turns out first it was C, then they made C++, then Java, and they both stemmed from C

C++ is actually older than Java!!!

Although, this textbook was written a long time ago, and no doubt they have added sh*tloads to C++, Java was described as a "new" language, the author thought they might actually be moving off from C++ to Java

 

[Darkholme]

Recently I read a few pages off of a C programming book from the 90's, turns out first it was C, then they made C++, then Java, and they both stemmed from C

C++ is actually older than Java!!!

Although, this textbook was written a long time ago, and no doubt they have added sh*tloads to C++, Java was described as a "new" language, the author thought they might actually be moving off from C++ to Java

Indeed. That's why they are both similar. They're both based on C. I wasn't sure if it was java or c++ that was newer so that's why I didn't say.

Point is, they ARE similar. Syntactically, and in capability. Java runs a bit slower though. Java is like C# but not microsoft owned. runs on all platforms after installing java VM, and C# does it after installing .net.

so, back on topic. If you need some help coding I can help in the summer.

And I still want to know if nexus was serious with his last insulting post.

 

[Herman]

Sorry to jump off again

I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't kidding, as Java is now what basically all mini-games are programmed in

In my VB class, maybe 2 kids weren't retarded with their coding, while maybe half had already learned some Java

Isn't as prestigious as it was thought to become...

'Tis still a language similar to C and C++

I'd give Nexus a break though, he probably only learned whatever the hell these kids in my programming class learned, which is probably very basic and discrediting

 

[PurgeandFire]

C++. You can add natives via jAPI and Grimoire helps for WEHacks and everything.

And Starcraft II is going to have more features. That editor will probably be better. But the player cap is low for sc2, I think it is around 8. :\

http://wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=84417

 

[DesKaladA]

Meh

I know some of it all so i can program really neet appsz that use like 50 diffrent languages to get stuffz done

 

[Infinitynexus]

Herman, I know nothing of programming besides Java messing up my computer whenever it gets the chance, lol

And desk, you couldnt program to save your life, nuff said.

 

[Darkholme]

Alright. since you admit your cluelessness and wouldn't be able to tell an "actual programmer" from a guy who took one class, other than you being convinced that all things java are bad, I won't slaughter you. or give you the negative rep I was going to if your explanation had not been reasonable.

Seriously though, don't go insulting people about areas in which you don't know what you're talkign about.

 

[HappyTauren]

Haha you can't even neg rep
And really, not all things in java are bad, many are usefull, if only it wasnt for the horrible GUI... Anyway, java has one huge adventage: It is cross-platform.

 

[Darkholme]

Haha you can't even neg rep
And really, not all things in java are bad, many are usefull, if only it wasnt for the horrible GUI... Anyway, java has one huge adventage: It is cross-platform.

I did say that its cross platform. Like a non manopilized .net which is about 5-8 years older. I've never even tried to neg rep, so I assumed it was just a 50 rep necessary thing. Doesn't particularly matter. The point is he was being a jackass about something he knew nothing about and and it was personally insulting.

Last time I worked in java we have no gui, it was all text and a compiler. but thats just the DevKit youre using. Unless you mean the Gui you can make, cause I've seen stuff that performs the same as windows GUI.

[Edit] Looks like nobody but admins can -rep. whatever. point is he was being a god damn jopa.

 

[Preskooldude]

yes it is a spectialy made program that uses winscok and i beleve dx hooks to do its actions

Sorry to cut this up with an old post, but this hasn't really been corrected yet. Seeing as how Mindy himself gave me the answer to this, allow me to make a clarification:

With the release of PipeDream's Grimoire system, users have now been able to inject DLLs (Dynamic Link Libraries, wiki that if you need to) in order to implant custom natives. So no, its not through DirectX Hooks, as those would only allow the capture of Keypresses, Mousepresses, and allow some visual artwork to appear. However , since Reinventing the Craft relays this information and feeds it into Warcraft III's engine, the only way for good Mindy to do this is through Grimoire and injectable DLLs.

*cough* Sorry about that.

Now then, I honestly can't say anything about Java, since I only know what I've ported over from C/++, but the lack of pointers really cripples things. Sure, it makes up for it with multi-porting and ease of class use, but I think we can stay with our C, and you can stay with your Java. Now that that's over with, can we please get back on topic? Or maybe its good that we have some activity in this forum -.-.

 

[Darkholme]

Now then, I honestly can't say anything about Java, since I only know what I've ported over from C/++, but the lack of pointers really cripples things. Sure, it makes up for it with multi-porting and ease of class use, but I think we can stay with our C, and you can stay with your Java. Now that that's over with, can we please get back on topic? Or maybe its good that we have some activity in this forum -.-.

The entire reason that I got pissed off was someone assuming that the fact that I've taken a number of other languages means I can't code in C++ and that I'm somehow not a programmer or some shit. I was not suggesting the use of java, I was stating things I have used before frequently. I was proposing to help in C++, so please be less condescending and don't discount me and try to demean me with your "now you go run along with your java while we big people use c++" The idea that someone can use one and not the other is ludicris.

Now, in regard to the statement of my offer to help. could I get a comment on this from the person I addressed the question to (I'm pretty sure MindWurx is the main guy right?)? or just a number of other people who are going to be condescending and elitist because they have done more work in c++. I figured out Jass in a week and a half, and it's nothing like java, its closer to vb. but still different, and I haven't used vb since 2005. so I can do C++, so stop insulting me and let the person I directed the question at answer the question. Shit.

 

[MindWorX]

Hey, i'm sorry for the late response, but i actually added your MSN to mine, but it appears you don't use it much. We don't really need a coder atm, and i'm sure you'd just be a big question mark once you see the source code, it's VERY messy. But i see you're good with Java, so we might be able to figure something out. If you get on MSN we can have a better talk about your skills, and your possible position with the RtC Team.

- MindWorX

 

[DesKaladA]

Meh

EDIT: Please just stop all the java bashing, it works great for what it does. - MindWorX

But i'm glad to see that this project has momentum

(PS Mindy if you want site help i can write that up for you)

 

[Craka_J]

(PS Mindy if you want site help i can write that up for you)

That's what you told me too... (Regarding Apocalypse's freewebs site)

~Craka_J

 

[DesKaladA]

ya but when i went to update it it seemed someone already did.............

 

[Frosthowl]

So will this miracle of a program be able to let us go past the 4 mb file size limit? Also, anyone worried what blizz will think?

 

[Shadow_Fox]

So will this miracle of a program be able to let us go past the 4 mb file size limit? Also, anyone worried what blizz will think?

Because it will not utilize battle.net, there would not be a size limit for maps, or so i gather.

 

[redmarine]

I want to know more... This is cool....
Sounds like the system is working properly and you're still encountering some flaws.

 

[Someguy19]

The project seems interesting, although I was banned due to you. D:
Well, I don't really care about that ban, I'm just looking forward to this project being completed!

 

[redmarine]

The project seems interesting, although I was banned due to you. D:
Well, I don't really care about that ban, I'm just looking forward to this project being completed!

Who doesn't D:!

 

[terradont]

I know this is impossible to know exactly, but if you would guess, how much progress have you made and how long would it take before it's finished?

I've been longing for this a while

 

[MindWorX]

Right now it's actually literally impossible to say, seeing as the newest patch destroy everything, and we're working from scratch now.

 

[redmarine]

Right now it's actually literally impossible to say, seeing as the newest patch destroy everything, and we're working from scratch now.

seriously? Aww that sucks!

 

[terradont]

That's not good at all =/

Damn Blizzard!

 

[bobmanone]

at least you have not received any emails from Blizz asking you to shut it down

 

[PurplePoot]

That's effectively what the patch was, in many ways.

 

[MindWorX]

Pretty much yea. But they haven't stopped us completely tho, almost got a new jAPI working again. But this time we've made it our self, rather than being dependent on someone elses work, which gives us some more freedom, and better support.

 

[Linaze]

MindWorX, I strongly admire your skill and dedication in the creation of WarSoc. I can only hope that this will be completed one day, it is so much unique in difference than other warcraft projects. If this is completed, it will be the greatest creation of all times.
Three cheers to MindWorX!

 

[Captain Griffen]

That's effectively what the patch was, in many ways.

Other possibilities:

- License on the old compiler ran out (this is why proprietory sucks).
- Feeble attempt to try and stop map-hacks...didn't work.

The current situation is relying on PipeDream's rehacking on WC3, and it would, rather unfortunately, appear that he has gone and gotten a life or something crazy like that...

 

[MindWorX]

Well, as i wrote earlier, atm, we aren't actually relying on PipeDream to hack it, since we're making our own injector(Finished), and jAPI dll(Well under way). PipeDream will have to fix all the things like war3err, nopause, WEhacks and such, but the things we need for RtC to work are on their way.

 

[SFilip]

> relying on PipeDream's rehacking on WC3
Or, alternatively, SFilip can do it himself this time.

 

[shadow3]

Finish it or I'll inject five different personalities in you, and they'll all want to eat food and do emo-stuff

Looked at this a loong time ago, and it was awesome already then, if you can do this, you are the greatest Wc3 Modder(that I know of).

So, it's probably been answered before, but meh dont answer if you think I'm too lazy. It'll remove the max size?

 

[bobmanone]

just wanted to say your doing an amazing job and by no means do we need a release date just take your time and work at your own pace and mostly have fun with it. if this ever does come out many many people will be very happy and will use it. just wanted to say thx

 

[The Reborn Devil]

I don't know if you have answered this before, but how do you create the custom natives? Do you create some kind of file that Warcraft uses to understand what the functions in Common.j does? And if it is like that, how do you make Warcraft use that file? I'm not good in programming so I don't understand how you do it, I've only got some experience with JASS and HTML and a little experience with JavaScript.

 

[SFilip]

We use DLL injection (use Google if you want more info on that).
The main idea, originally thought of and implemented by xttocs and PipeDream, ultimately makes WC3 call your function (made in C++ or just about any language that can produce DLLs) every time the native you associated with it is called.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Ok, so you inject DLL's into Warcraft which is used whenever the native is called? That means that I can't create custom natives yet I haven't learned C++ and I don't got a program which can create DLL files or inject DLL's...

 

[redmarine]

Ok, so you inject DLL's into Warcraft which is used whenever the native is called? That means that I can't create custom natives yet I haven't learned C++ and I don't got a program which can create DLL files or inject DLL's...

It's only a matter of time till you will become experienced enough.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

It's only a matter of time till you will become experienced enough.

YAY! I'm looking forward to it! I'm going to study programming when I start at the university, but I hope I will learn a little before that.

 

[redmarine]

YAY! I'm looking forward to it! I'm going to study programming when I start at the university, but I hope I will learn a little before that.

I'm going to do that as well. Because StarCraft II Scum Editor features a C like scripting language it'll be easier for me to learn C++.

 

[Newuser]

C++. You can add natives via jAPI and Grimoire helps for WEHacks and everything.

And Starcraft II is going to have more features. That editor will probably be better. But the player cap is low for sc2, I think it is around 8. :\

http://wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=84417

I know this is late reply, but they might have meant "8" as in "8" for melee ladder.

Warcraft 3 has a cap of 8 for ladder, 4v4 is the highest it goes even though Warcraft supports 12 players.

I'd be really surprised if they did limit it to 8 players, I see no reason for them to take a step backward and go from 12 player to 8 player.

So I think they meant 8 as in 8 for ladder play.

 

[zapleaf]

This sounds amasing, I can not wait to know what will come of this!