Starcraft 2 Modeling, why is it failing?

[JesusHipster]

Startools, praise the lord.

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[BlinkBoy]

Startools, praise the lord.

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I would like to add that 3dsmax 2011's plugins are compatible with 3dsmax 2012, so if you have that version, don't hesitate to try them. However, they will definetly not work for 3dsmax 2013.

 

[Statharas]

I would like to add that 3dsmax 2011's plugins are compatible with 3dsmax 2012, so if you have that version, don't hesitate to try them. However, they will definetly not work for 3dsmax 2013.

How can you be so sure.

 

[Dr Super Good]

How can you be so sure.

I am guessing there was some announcement to change the scripting support.

 

[Stormlegacy]

It's been so long since I've been to this site! SC2 modeling isn't failing. It took a long time for Wc3's modeling to take off and those days were much more simple. With Startools coming out we'll finally be able to edit the models properly without 3rd party tools. It would be amazing if we could incorporate a way to edit D3 models with it too! Also after reading some of the threads about modding with D3/WoW models...you guys clearly don't understand Blizzards rules about use of their models. Pull your heads out of your asses.

 

[Statharas]

you guys clearly don't understand Blizzards rules about use of their models. Pull your heads out of your asses.

Enlight us, master.

 

[Stormlegacy]

Enlight us, master.

Blizzard has stated multiple times since SC2 came out that models from their universes are fair game. They have also posted videos of people who modded WoW and Diablo 3 models into SC2. Time for you guys to update your rulebook. Things have changed since 2004 when this site was called Wc3sear.ch

 

[Graber]

So Starcraft ArtTOols will be avaible... but the multiplayer mapsize is still 20 mb limted?

Why not incease it to 50 or even 100 mb.

 

[BlinkBoy]

How can you be so sure.

look for autodesk's 3dsmax 2012's faq and 2013's faq. There's a part in which they explain backward compatibility for each.

So Starcraft ArtTOols will be avaible... but the multiplayer mapsize is still 20 mb limted?

Why not incease it to 50 or even 100 mb.

Well that's the main idea of mods. The thing is that the community should classify the assets into different mods, so there wuldn't be redundancies.

 

[Anvil]

For me, the release of this tools will finally kill Warcraft III. Because with this, you can easy port all the models from Warcraft III to Starcraft II, also make your own models with all the options that Starcraft II supports. (Those things that m3 plugin don't support.)

I think, nobody gonna use the World Editor if you can do alot of new things with Galaxy.

Ofcourse, alot of people will stay in Warcraft III but I think that is because they can't run starcraft II or don't wanna learn how to use the Galaxy editor (A complexity issue?).

 

[Graber]

Why Blizz doesnt add more space per map not just 20 is to low? WHY?

They could make something like SKyrim nexus.

2.Extra Question: How hard is to make and Editor like Starcraft 2? Couse all the other games editor are kind of crap.

 

[BlinkBoy]

For me, the release of this tools will finally kill Warcraft III. Because with this, you can easy port all the models from Warcraft III to Starcraft II, also make your own models with all the options that Starcraft II supports. (Those things that m3 plugin don't support.)

I think, nobody gonna use the World Editor if you can do alot of new things with Galaxy.

Ofcourse, alot of people will stay in Warcraft III but I think that is because they can't run starcraft II or don't wanna learn how to use the Galaxy editor (A complexity issue?).

It won't make portying easier, pretty much the same as know. Plus, wc3 models look terrible in sc2.

Also remember, that galaxy editor is way more complex than world editor, just like sc2 modeling is way more complex than wc3 modeling.

2.Extra Question: How hard is to make and Editor like Starcraft 2? Couse all the other games editor are kind of crap.

Galaxy Editor wasn't started from scratch for sc2, it was an evolution of sc2's world editor, just like sc2's core is an evolution of wc3's core (software recycling). To be honest, a tool like galaxy editor is an increadible good example of good software design. The decisions they took concerning data editing and structuring were obviously continouesly revised. Tools like those prove that blizzard doesn't make you wait for 10 years without doing anything. It really proves they kept redesigning and evolving their model in order to match perfection. As a software engineer, I can tell that making and planning such a tool is not something you can achieve in a short life cycle.

 

[Anvil]

It won't make portying easier, pretty much the same as know. Plus, wc3 models look terrible in sc2.

I know Warcraft has really low poly models compared with Starcraft. But models look like crap because people just converts the models and uses the diffuse texture without make the normals, speculars and emitter texture. Also, you know starcraft 2 models looks horrible and low poly without these textures.

 

[BlinkBoy]

I know Warcraft has really low poly models compared with Starcraft. But models look like crap because people just converts the models and uses the diffuse texture without make the normals, speculars and emitter texture. Also, you know starcraft 2 models looks horrible and low poly without these textures.

not only that but in order to make them decent, some parts need to be remodeled and others need more details. Therefore, making the process a bit longer.

 

[Stormlegacy]

I've found that adding specular and normal maps to WoW models doesn't really even enhance them enough to be worth the extra file size.

 

[Rui]

For me, the release of this tools will finally kill Warcraft III. (...)

You don't need to worry. Medieval models is not what keeps Wc3 alive. Every large release hinders wc3's activity, but it has managed to keep a decent number of users around, regardless.

 

[Sorceress]

I thought Magos would make a new model editor..
Thread Link

hm, guess not.

 

[Graber]

Dudes where are my Starcraft2 Art Tools????? + increase of my size.

They released them yet?

 

[NhazUl]

No, most likely with Legacy of the Void.

 

[Walle]

Dudes where are my Starcraft2 Art Tools????? + increase of my size.

They released them yet?

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6160326046
They had an a closed beta sign up some time ago, but you can't sign up anymore. I got into the beta anyways and it's working really well so you can expect it coming with HoTs.

 

[Graber]

Man here is a problem:

With the art tools u will be able to add new animation to Starcraft 2 but only 1 or 2 at a time? To add them like files without the reimport the model.
For ex: In Warcraft 3 if i want to add just 1 more anim to a unit i cant add just the new anim file(witch can be 5 kb), I have to add the entire model again + the new anim so the space will grow much larger.

 

[Dr Super Good]

With the art tools u will be able to add new animation to Starcraft 2 but only 1 or 2 at a time? To add them like files without the reimport the model.

You can use auxilery animation files. The civilian units use these and what is good is the same animation can be mapped to many base models (obviously they must be compatible with it).

 

[Statharas]

No, most likely with Legacy of the Void.

"Most likely my ass"

 

[Graber]

Blizzard should incrase the maximum file size per map man wtf we are not in the stone age anymore. bless us the mizerabile midgets.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Blizzard should incrase the maximum file size per map man wtf we are not in the stone age anymore. bless us the mizerabile midgets.

Maps are limited to 20MB + any number of mods you want. Since you are not putting models and much art in the map itself, 20MB is a limite you will practically never hit.

 

[Graber]

Some ppl had to give up to their projects couse they didnt had enought space on the map size.

 

[Statharas]

They deserved to. If it was Wc3, they'd have to work with less.
And no, the Art Tools have not launched yet. There's a reason I am in the HOTS Beta.

 

[Dr Super Good]

And no, the Art Tools have not launched yet. There's a reason I am in the HOTS Beta.

And all 7 days that remain of it...

Some ppl had to give up to their projects couse they didnt had enought space on the map size.

I think you are confusing play-field size with file size. A lot of people gave up because the maps are technically half the length as those in WC3 (in each dimension, so 1/4 of the area).

There is no real escuse next to that since I could make a 500 MB map that uses 20 mods (the actual map is under 20 MB).

 

[Statharas]

And all 7 days that remain of it...


I think you are confusing play-field size with file size. A lot of people gave up because the maps are technically half the length as those in WC3 (in each dimension, so 1/4 of the area).

There is no real escuse next to that since I could make a 500 MB map that uses 20 mods (the actual map is under 20 MB).

That was a real pain in the ass in Wc3. In Starcraft 2, if you don't like your map's limits, you can easily scale things down. The only problem is, like always, the cliffs. Terrain is no longer squared and is like a canvas nowdays.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Frankly a lot of people abuse map area too much. They create huge spaces which you only use for 1-2 minutes a session. They need to earn the art of depths and recycling, using the same areas for more than one purpose.

An example would be an RPG like map where instead of having a dedicated low-level area, you instead multi-plex it with high-level content that you swap to at a certain level of player progress.

 

[Graber]

Did u ppl noticed that most of the players cant wait not even 1-2 min and they leave your map.
Or if your map is complex then u get trashed again.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Did u ppl noticed that most of the players cant wait not even 1-2 min and they leave your map.

Yes but that is a problem with the new generation of gamers, not with the game. The same thing is happening in WarCraft III as well now.

Also if you run your map during prime time it is usally quite easy to fill. The problem is it becomes impossibe at off-peek times.

Or if your map is complex then u get trashed again.

There is deeply complex and needlessly complex. Some maps add needless complexity just for the sake of it which detracts frome game play (such as ammo in many survival maps). Other maps add complex game mechanics that require real understanding and add to the skill needed to play the game (think SWAT Aftermath in WarCraft 3).

 

[Graber]

War3|Star2 editors are very good(almost all other editors are shit) but they sometimes blocked with no reasons or the map started to have bugs even if the triggers where ok.

Other thing will Hive acept after StarTools are out some medieval models that are not lore friendly?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Other thing will Hive acept after StarTools are out some medieval models that are not lore friendly?

They will as long as they comply to the BattleNet terms of use and are not stolen from some other artist.

 

[Graber]

How about this:

1.Better tools in order to add to games custom content easy, couse right now for ex: skyrim\star2 u cant add new monsters with new custom anims or if u can is very hard deal.
2 Posibilty to make money out from your mods via donations or something, what the game developers can make 20$ with some crap DLC and some guy with mods doesnt deserve not even a 1-3$ donation for his mod.

SO better tools\money will increase the quality and quantity of every mods in games.

 

[Rui]

Using models from other games is liable to cause trouble. Using them for a mod that you're going to profit from is bound to cause trouble, resulting in law suits at worse.

 

[Graber]

Using models from other games is liable to cause trouble. Using them for a mod that you're going to profit from is bound to cause trouble, resulting in law suits at worse.

I wasnt talking about ripping models i just say there is a need of better tools\ money making in some game mods to be better.

Here is a couple of extra qustions:


1 If i make a model from scrath but it looks like other copyrighted model from other games is ok?.... the models are also cuprighted or just some names....it cant be all.
2In game there are some amzing stuff from where the concept artist gets their inspiration?

 

[Avex]

My issues with SC2 modding in general is that the learning curve is almost a 90 degree angle.

I spent a good year or so on Wc3 and by then I could do almost everything I needed. I can't even make a new unit in SC2 without things going completely wrong. They stated in Blizzcon before SC2 came out they'd have different levels of difficulty for the editor, where one would be like Sc1, then Wc3, then the Galaxy editor which would be what it is now. They decided to scrap the first two and just throw the editor at us and tell us to learn it or gtfo.

I mean really, I've seen Blizzard be lazy but it's rediculous. The curve is so rediculous that you can't sit down and learn everything as easily as you could before, there are so many different variables you have to spend weeks if not months figuring out ONE of them. I don't think it's just modeling that's an issue, all the good maps are gunna stay at the top of Browse because no one can figure out how to make a map.

 

[Rui]

(...)
1 If i make a model from scrath but it looks like other copyrighted model from other games is ok?.... the models are also cuprighted or just some names....it cant be all.
2In game there are some amzing stuff from where the concept artist gets their inspiration?

Unfortunately yeah, you can make something resemble an in-game resource to 99,9% accuracy, if it looks just the same, it's 100% copy of idea/concept.

 

[JesusHipster]

Unfortunately yeah, you can make something resemble an in-game resource to 99,9% accuracy, if it looks just the same, it's 100% copy of idea/concept.

I just want to add, that as far as i know concepts and ideas, used in videogames are not protected by the copyright law in the us.

 

[Rui]

I wouldn't be so sure. Anyway, I'm probably making it look too aggressive. When it comes to video games, things are more lenient — they know they'd never see the end of it if they went after anyone that uses video game music outside of its original game. Again, these are just speculations.

Anyhow, we've went a bit off-topic.

 

[Silverfish423]

I think it is possible to use wc3 models to be honest It just requires hard work and a bit of luck, haha. but seriously, I think it is possible.

 

[tobyfat50]

Yes, things really got more complicated with the release of Starcraft 2, there's a whole freaking story here. Tried modding a little with sc2 and its capabilities and was really happy that it had all these awesome features but as it turned out I wasn't getting the desired results. The reason was that I wasn't skilled and didn't have the necessary experience to produce a aesthetically appealing result. Sure I`t makes lights and shadows instantly and with little effort but it wasn't turning out the way I wanted. That`s when I realized that it needed a whole different approach that the way I used to work with wc3. It took me some time, Years to make a terrain look good with the wc3 engine. It would take more for sc2, that includes understaning the mammoth galaxy editor and I'm still discovering stuff in wc3. Modeling would be more demanding but not for some people. I was thinking of switching to sc2 modding but I probably won't since after I finish my project I'll retire.
Good luck to all those enthusiastic mooders out there who'll take on sc2 modding!

 

[somen00b]

I doesn't help that the policies on a lot of popular starcraft II sites (including this one) on what you can and can't upload are too freaking strict for no reason!

 

[BlinkBoy]

When I was model moderator. I wasn't really too strict, but atleast the resource had to be usefull.

 

[Talavaj]

I didn't see many resources rejected. Unless of course you imply that rejecting rips is douche in some way.
As from personal perspective, making SC2 assets in any form of serious way would require professional tools, sculpting softwares even.

That, and honestly if I was to spend so much effort I'd think twice, likely ending up selling the assets on unity store or wherever.
I think SC2 modding art wise, is doomed to either assets of quality that is not quite up there, rips or lame geomerges akin to what "artists" from the so called Upheaval Arts do.

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Like is said the first post, portraits are one of the main things holding modelers back. Making a facial rig and lip syncing it are difficult and require very expensive software, and just making those high res portrait models is very time consuming. And after all that, you still have to render the portrait animations at a very high quality to make them fit.

 

[BlinkBoy]

Well I've been looking into the Sc2 Art Tools and things don't look that hard to do. Atleast they autobake IK animations, so that's good.

The bigger problem I see right now are normal maps and portraits. Portraits need sculping and good rigging. High quality normal maps are painfull since they require both 3D and 2D skills on shape in order to be made, but with just 2D skills you can make good normal maps if you know wtf you are doing.

The particle and ribbon systems are way more complex, but with time one can learn to use them. (They are extremely powerfull). Physics and rigid body rigging for sc2 looks quite stupid to be honest.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, everything you can make in a Wc3 model, you can do it in Sc2. Blizzard left on purpose a lot of backward compatibility objects. You can also make portraits wc3 style.

 

[marioeh]

Hi guys, First time posting.

I've made a ton of maps and helped on a ton of maps for WC3 back in the days when this game was booming and the custom game world was extremally large.

I still map today, however online is filled with bots and games that never start -.- so i do it for enjoyment.

I do not like the SC2 editor. Yes ok, it has 1000x more possabilities than the WC3 editor does, but in all honesty, when i started using the wc3 editor and made basic maps, i picked it up within a few weeks and was making campaigns. By far i was no where near great at map making, buut people seemed to enjoy them.

I find taht with the SC2 edtor, it's just too complex. Sure, the possabilities are there, but you really need to sit down for a month to learn the basics.

I feel that if they made a 'simplified SC2 editor for dummies' style SC2 map maker it would be ok (Also a LAN option would be nice lol). As for the modeling, the customizations do seem to be done via mixing and matching in-game models for SC2. That's what i think anyway. I remember see'ing the tanks map and going "OMG!!!!! Custom models look sick!!!!!" back in the day

anyway, sorry if that sounded like a rant, but it's been a while since i was in a forum for wc3. Missed it

 

[Dr Super Good]

I find taht with the SC2 edtor, it's just too complex. Sure, the possabilities are there, but you really need to sit down for a month to learn the basics.

No, it takes months to learn all the basics but that is because it has a lot more areas to learn. You can learn the basics of an individual area far faster than WC3 since SC2 makes a lot more sense.

You honestly telling me that special cases are superior to SC2's generic implementation? In SC2 you can make something like Death Bolt and change it to target anything, in WC3 it was stuck healing undead and damaging living.