WoW & Blizzard Game Resources

[Pharaoh_]

Allowance of using Blizzard models within Blizzard products was formally stated, right? Otherwise we replicate a false rumor. If so, we are automatically granted the privilege of using them despite the artists. After all, everything that is contained within the games is "registered under the trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, bla bla" and both WoW and WarCraft III share the trademark and the name of the company. Thus, their work is bound to the company's policy and if the company's policy allows this, then everything's set.

 

[JCarrill0]

EDIT: As for my take on this, I have seen some pretty terrible rips off trying to make something cool just because it had wow models. As for others, such as WoW: HR & Iceborn, where they put an incredible amount of time and effort re-mastering the model to perfect their own map idea is not only clever, but a keen eye of the creator.

I applaud creators such as Frank hand crafting each model, it takes their time and dedication! You are an inspiration to everyone who wishes they could create models.

PS - please remove rep limits. I can only give Heinvers & Solu9 so much after each thread.

I'm like +rep, Dang. Oh a good point, +rep, dang it! read a few more posts, OO +rep, GRRR!!!

 

[A Void]

Every Artist in the Blizzard works for the Blizzard, everything they create for WoW is no longer under the ownership of them, it belongs to the game and the company. They have no authority to dissallow using Blizzard models when we clearly can see some spoofes already in Blizzard Games;
There is a mini-Diablo mount from WoW in a single player SC2 mission, it had the same model of WoW mount. There are also plenty of SC2 Arcade games that contain ripp's from WoW, Diablo 3. But still, they are allowed and fully opened in the arcade. That means that you can use all resources under Blizzard in any of your map (War3). Icons, Textures, Models- they are all allowed. I wonder who created this silly idea that you cant in the first place.

 

[Celaquil]

That means that you can use all resources under Blizzard in any of your map

That's called flawed logic, you can't assume we're allowed to rip models from WoW and
use them for Wc3 simply because they convert their own models from game to game.

I'm not saying you're not right, I'm simply saying that your line of reasoning doesn't make
sense.

Every Artist in the Blizzard works for the Blizzard, everything they create for WoW is no longer under the ownership of them, it belongs to the game and the company.

Unless you've got a documented source to show for this, I call flawed logic again.
While indeed these artists work for Blizzard and they have indeed granted Blizzard
the rights to use their creations for their games, that doesn't mean we've been
granted that same clemency. So, I've already stated I don't have sources to show
for my claims and if you don't then we'll simply have to rely on common sense.
- And as thus disagree.

PS - please remove rep limits.

No.

 

[Heinvers]

Every Artist in the Blizzard works for the Blizzard, everything they create for WoW is no longer under the ownership of them, it belongs to the game and the company.

Proof please.

 

[Vinz]

I'll give a follow up suggestion if rips ever gets fully approved. That reputation gain from these rips are disabled. That might reduce the certain flood of uploads.

I agree. However a flood of uploads does not need to be contained as rips will be in a sub section and will not affect genuine community creations in the Modelling Section.

 

[A Void]

I agree. However a flood of uploads does not need to be contained as rips will be in a sub section and will not affect genuine community creations in the Modelling Section.

Can you please vote in the poll? I don't see your user-name anywhere.

 

[tobyfat50]

I find it ridiculous not to have a section for all Blizzard-related resources. It's a good thing for a game who reached its passing age and can only prolong its life by giving artists and nostalgiacs more freedom of expression.

 

[Fingolfin]

In my opinion, simple edits and rips (especially those from war3 alpha a.k.a "warcraft with worse graphics") do nothing but clutter the database with useless shit. I don't think the people donating money for this sites server space would expect it to be spent on hosting the MPQ:s from Diablo 3, SC 2 and WoW just because some people want to feel like modelers without doing any modeling.

I am not the least bit concerned with warcrafts future, many games significantly older and uglier still have communities that are very much alive, such as Doom, Half Life 1, Battlezone, etc. Frankly i feel like the art style of both Diablo and WoW often clash with Warcraft 3, and the few WoW models that are useful are already in circulation and can be found all over the web. It also bugs me how you are trying to make this sound like some kind of public uproar when it really is controversial for most people here.

 

[Footman16]

Can you please vote in the poll? I don't see your user-name anywhere.

Well that says it all, if your more concerned with their vote in a very very flawed poll than their actual opinion.

 

[Vinz]

I saw in the main posts that you include HotS. if that game proves to be everything it is and has a map editor at the same time, modders will go over and we have no need to rip since it is the Modding Game we've been searching for all these years.

 

[A Void]

Well that says it all, if your more concerned with their vote in a very very flawed poll than their actual opinion.

He commented earlier without voting, I just reminded that the point of this thread is to vote. And then share your opinion on why you voted. I'm sure this clears everything.

I find it ridiculous not to have a section for all Blizzard-related resources. It's a good thing for a game who reached its passing age and can only prolong its life by giving artists and nostalgiacs more freedom of expression.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Cihparg]

Sincerely, due to the main post being a clusterfuck:

People that agreed: 10 + 2
People that disagreed: 9 + 6
Others: 1

Against: ((10+2)/(9+6))*100 80%
For: 100 - (((10+2)/(9+6))*100) 20%

 

[A Void]

Sincerely, due to the main post being a clusterfuck:

People that agreed: 10 + 2
People that disagreed: 9 + 6
Others: 1

Against: ((10+2)/(9+6))*100 80%
For: 100 - (((10+2)/(9+6))*100) 20%

I'm very sorry it's not about advanced or any maths. Just see the numbers and the pro cents, they are very clear enough. I am not trying to confuse but you are a little off-topic.

 

[APproject]

In my opinion this kind of section is not necessary at all. There are other forums such as WcUnderground, Chaosrealm and Wc3-maps.ru that has a tremendous amount of good quality WoW resources. Personally I am satisfied with other forums having it, they are based on it and I doubt if Hiveworkshop would catch up such a forum as WcUnderground in WoW resources. Since WoW resources are really vast in size, it would only take space in the database and I am still sure that these models would dublicate in other forums once being ripped. The only minus, other forums has no search system which is annoying, but to my mind it is just it. Voting for disagreeing.

 

[Fingolfin]

Sincerely, due to the main post being a clusterfuck:

People that agreed: 10 + 2
People that disagreed: 9 + 6
Others: 1

Against: ((10+2)/(9+6))*100 80%
For: 100 - (((10+2)/(9+6))*100) 20%

Your math is off. You are basically saying that 15 votes is 80% while 12 votes is 20%. It should be 100*[votes for option]/[total votes], like this:

For:
100*(10+2)/(10+2+9+6+1) = 43%

Against:
100*(9+6)/(10+2+9+6+1) = 54%

Others:
100*1/(10+2+9+6+1) = 3%

 

[Cihparg]

Your math is off. You are basically saying that 15 votes is 80% while 12 votes is 20%. It should be 100*[votes for option]/[total votes], like this:

For:
100*(10+2)/(10+2+9+6+1) = 43%

Against:
100*(9+6)/(10+2+9+6+1) = 54%

Others:
100*1/(10+2+9+6+1) = 3%

I had a hunch it was off, glad someone bothered to correct it.

 

[Solu9]

|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|
| The Final Decision: N/A (Unknown)
|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|

I'm confused. Did this thread/poll suddenly become defining?

 

[General Frank]

Nope.

 

[takakenji]

nobody wants wow rips we kno thats ur hidden agenda

 

[PurgeandFire]

To anyone interested in the legal side of things, this might be an interesting read:
http://myndflame.com/blogs/myndflame-the-blog/blizzard-machinima-law-part-2/

It is a commentary on Blizzard's fair use policy towards machinima. For those who don't know it, WoW machinima are cinematics made from ingame footage or 3d scenes set up using Blizzard's assets. The tl;dr summary of the article: if it is noncommercial, you can use any of their assets and music. It is reasonable that this would extend to Warcraft III.

For more backup, Blizzard featured a map, Molten Core, on their custom map vault (which is pre-2006, iirc).

Obviously, we won't get a point-blank "You are allowed to use WoW models in Warcraft 3". Blizzard's general rule towards modding was something along the line of "we do not support the editor, make sure you follow da rulez".
-----

As for server space, I'm pretty sure Ralle has a server on the level of terabytes.

-----
But anyway, it seems that this thread has devolved away from the question at hand. The posts should pertain to the question at hand: have a section or not? Even if it is implemented, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will follow genin's specifications. It would be up to the staff ultimately.

I'm confused. Did this thread/poll suddenly become defining?

Nope. It won't determine anything--that is up to the staff. This should just be considered a discussion. If the majority were in favor, it wouldn't hurt the chances of it being implemented, but it wouldn't guarantee it being implemented.

-----
One thing that is interesting: when Pharaoh made a similar topic, there wasn't an uproar of hostility. From the start of this thread, I've felt like personal bias has played a big role in this poll and its discussion, and that is a bit disappointing (I suppose it is a fact of life though).

 

[JCarrill0]

I'm very sorry it's not about advanced or any maths. Just see the numbers and the pro cents, they are very clear enough. I am not trying to confuse but you are a little off-topic.

wait do you think if the votre gets wining pol for yes, the mods will simply change and make this happen?

This is a vote of opinion, not a vote for election, Nor is this a petition to get this Approved. Your only asking for opinions here. You donlt run this site, nor do you help Manage this. To simply think this will sway Ralle's decision is not considered all the facts.

1. They have a mind of their own.
2. While they take in consideration of the Members here, they have the moderators who help decide on things
3. You need to understand the difference from wanting something, and working to make it happen.

While I am all for making changes and listening to users opinion, again on websites I manage I still always have the final decision. Ralle's took over a site that he thought deserved a second chance. Rightfully so too, but that doesn't mean anyone can just come and tell The admin what to do. You have to learn respect, which as of late I haven't seen much.

Please understand this isn't to be taken personal. This is to be understood where we stand, and the Administration stands. This message goes out to anyone with the mentality I just explained. Not just the creator of this topic.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Haven't really read almost anything here...

But I suppose for me personally, I am mixed. I like the idea of easily & quickly finding WoW icons (since I feel that those mostly fit into Wc3) & not having to rip them myself... But I feel that most WoW models are waaay too advanced & high-poly & such for the Wc3-setting. Textures?... Ignorancy & Apathy.

But if the question is "an entirely new section"... Well what's wrong with just an option on the existing drop-down menu (i.e. "Icons Section: Unit icons, Ability icons, WoW icons, etc")? Or, as was pointed out in the poll, a special (stickied?) thread in the Modeling Forums? Etc. I don't know that an entirely new section of the site need be built for this, nor that it will necessarily provide a "transfusion" of activity here.

Meh. WoW icons FTW.

 

[Solu9]

Kyrbi0 brings up a good point about icons.
If icons from SC2, WoW, Diablo is allowed to be uploaded you might as well shut down the icon section altogether.
There are so many great icons in those games that you can find anything you would wish for there.
The need for user submitted icons will be next to zero.
I know we already have some WoW icons. But since they don't require any editing like models do, these will almost certainly make their way here really fast and in vast amounts.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Kyrbi0 brings up a good point about icons.
If icons from SC2, WoW, Diablo is allowed to be uploaded you might as well shut down the icon section altogether.
There are so many great icons in those games that you can find anything you would wish for there.
The need for user submitted icons will be next to zero.
I know we already have some WoW icons. But since they don't require any editing like models do, these will almost certainly make their way here really fast and in vast amounts.

Meh, I dunno if I'd say that. There are tons of great icons from WoW for nearly every conceivable usage... But there will always be holes to fill (case in point: NEVER ENOUGH TROLLISH ICONS. Especially Upgrades. ). So allowing the icons of other games won't necessarily cause detriment to existing Icon-makers.

 

[tobyfat50]

The idea will kill the very foundation of what this site is about. Modding and creating. Bring creations to life for others to use.
Great modellers will fall victim to tons of crap rips, and those rips will streamline a lot of the map section as well.
New ideas are great, but this is far from a new idea. And far from what this site stands for.
Unless I have understood the purpose of this site the wrong way.

Maybe you should rethink that a bit!

Wow models kills the creative modeller.

I doubt it, you can't do everything yourself all the time. I find myself using other resources when they are available just to save some time and effort. Of course I do work on reskinning and maybe some remodeling. Depends what you are doing, maybe it's a terrain and you need something done fast or you want to make a good looking cinematic and don't have modeling abilities but you only want to focus on the cinematic, some good looking models would come in handy. As a modeller myself I can safely say it did nothing to harm my creativity, it's very much alive and kicking.

So what does this site stand for again? It's because wow rips that more people get creative. It's nice to suggest against it so that it leads to the death of the site faster. You are downfalling your own kingdom!

Perhaps there is another reason to be against this?

 

[Solu9]

Maybe you should rethink that a bit!

I don't see any need for rethinking that. Can you enlighten me?

I doubt it, you can't do everything yourself all the time. I find myself using other resources when they are available just to save some time and effort. Of course I do work on reskinning and maybe some remodeling. Depends what you are doing, maybe it's a terrain and you need something done fast or you want to make a good looking cinematic and don't have modeling abilities but you only want to focus on the cinematic, some good looking models would come in handy. As a modeller myself I can safely say it did nothing to harm my creativity, it's very much alive and kicking.

I'm not exactly sure what this part is supposed to say.
I read how your project process is.
I can't seem to find the arguments for allowing external models to be uploading on this site.
Can you make it clearer?

So what does this site stand for again? It's because wow rips that more people get creative. It's nice to suggest against it so that it leads to the death of the site faster. You are downfalling your own kingdom!

"It's because of wow rips that more people get creative".
I understand what you mean. WoW models will bring in "competition" to the modellers thus making them more creative.
Yeah, that's great. Except why would you need any custom models when you have a world of matching models to work with?
Do you want that custom tree model in your WoW world? No because it's off in terms of appearances.
Do you want that unit? No, same reason.
Modellers will have to streamline their work to fit
This is of course an extreme example, but that's what worries me, hence my stance in this matter.
Call me a pessimist.

Perhaps there is another reason to be against this?

No, that's pretty much it. Unless of course it wasn't really a question but an insinuation.

 

[HerrDave]

Stun-lockingly proper!

I don't agree with just basic WoW rips but things like WoW icons, textures Warcraft 3 Alpha resources etc should be available somewhere, and if that somewhere is an entirely new section so be it.

WoW models ported into Warcraft 3 shouldn't be allowed but if someone was to say greatly reduce their poly count cut down the animations and make them actually usable in a Warcraft 3 map then I'd consider it.

Bloody hell, man! Ye took the words right out o' my mouth!

The picture below is what we would start seeing if unedited WoW models were allowed on the Workshop.

Too many polies/textures means no multiplayer, mates! (Bar Genin's limit remover, bloody brilliant tool)

 

[tobyfat50]

I don't see any need for rethinking that. Can you enlighten me?

Replied to that in the second message.

I'm not exactly sure what this part is supposed to say.
I read how your project process is.
I can't seem to find the arguments for allowing external models to be uploading on this site.
Can you make it clearer?

I was generally referring to wow models. I meant terrainers sometime use external models for their work. I would personally use more high quality models but only the ones that are free to use (non commercial), look at the UTM maps they have some rips, cinematics to.

It's because of wow rips that more people get creative".
I understand what you mean. WoW models will bring in "competition" to the modellers thus making them more creative.
Yeah, that's great. Except why would you need any custom models when you have a world of matching models to work with?
Do you want that custom tree model in your WoW world? No because it's off in terms of appearances.
Do you want that unit? No, same reason.
Modellers will have to streamline their work to fit
This is of course an extreme example, but that's what worries me, hence my stance in this matter.
Call me a pessimist.

My Terrain

For one thing I don't use low quality models ore models that are given to me from a UTM map since I find them all unsatisfactory. I combine everything I can get my hands on and taking my time modifying it to make it match. I might be one of the rare extreme cases here since people don't usually do that. I also make models myself, see my albums or go to my sigs. Some of the models from the image are from Stone & Sword, there are even my models in there.
To me it's not if the models mach, it's how I make them mach!

No, that's pretty much it. Unless of course it wasn't really a question but an insinuation.

No I don't. Don't take this in an offensive way I wasn't referring to you, I was speaking in general! To be honest it's not really in my interest since I am already using what I want, it's in the interest of the people who might find it useful, I have nothing against the idea.

I wouldn't restrict people to use wow models since it would mean decreasing the people who want to be creative. Look at some maps like WoW: Heroes Return and other examples also try to see the reason the models are used!

 

[Vinz]

Bloody hell, man! Ye took the words right out o' my mouth!

The picture below is what we would start seeing if unedited WoW models were allowed on the Workshop.

Too many polies/textures means no multiplayer, mates! (Bar Genin's limit remover, bloody brilliant tool)

That is the mapmaker's problem of conservation and not using Local Files.

 

[chobibo]

Some people are still unwilling to use local files...

 

[Vinz]

That is, if everything can fit in the map's 8mb limit alone.

 

[chobibo]

I'm not talking about the people who follow the 8 MB limit, I'm talking about the people who doesn't like downloading local files for maps, they exist too, and map maker's put them in consideration when making maps.

 

[GhostThruster]

everything purgeandfire has said i agree with. but i voted <comment> because i don't think we need a blizzard resource section.

@the part mentioning pharaoh's thread vs this one, it's probably because genin presents himself as overly self-important. for the record, i am 'for' this thread's topic.

 

[Vinz]

I'm not talking about the people who follow the 8 MB limit, I'm talking about the people who doesn't like downloading local files for maps, they exist too, and map maker's put them in consideration when making maps.

But.. if they download the map Local Files are 1 click away.

 

[chobibo]

I'm not against it, also, it's easier to get maps if it's in an map archive, you won't need to do any other extra work.

 

[eubz]

If the section is for rips, then let there be tutorials how to rip them from other blizzard games. If everybody agrees to have a new section, let the section be named ripped off section unless a resource has been modified heavily and fits to war3 environment, this can still be uploaded in the model section if such resource is a model. As for me, I disagree having a new section of purely ripped of ones.

 

[Cakedog345]

Wow models kills the creative modeller.
That being said. Wow buildings, wow doodads, wow item attachments must be allowed as well. Thus turning Hive more or less into a wow modding site rather than a Warcraft 3 site.

So true!

 

[JCarrill0]

As for me, I disagree having a new section of purely ripped of ones.

I would agree with this.

 

[-Grendel]

a big, fat NO. making another section filled with tons of game rips means killing hive modelers. and also, i can see your point of wanting to have another section, to get your resources approved.

 

[PROXY]

Nope. Because, nearly every wow model IS already ripped and DEFINETLY existing on xgm.guru or wcunderground or any other of these sites. I'm constantly visiting xgm.guru and I can tell you, if you need a wow model, you'll find it there. They have an own forum for that. Hive was never the place for wow rips and will never be.

Not to imagine the massive flood of "upcoming" modelers FLOODING this new section with their absurd rips.

 

[Chaosy]

I don't see any negative side of allowing it, it just adds more options to modding. Even if many RIPS exist on other sites.

 

[Vinz]

Not to imagine the massive flood of "upcoming" modelers FLOODING this new section with their absurd rips.

I think that people learn early on from ripping (including MiniMage as he said in chat), and also that they shouldn't be called modelers, instead rippers only. They should not also receive reputation for ripping.

And flooding the new section would not be a problem, because it is a new section and viewing it will have to be caused by your wanting to view it. (wait what.)

 

[Heinvers]

....don't forget that new users will most likely post the rips in the model section too for the sake of having a resource. This is quite sensitive.

 

[JCarrill0]

We could then be called a mod & Ripping Community, how lovely.

SMH

 

[Vinz]

....don't forget that new users will most likely post the rips in the model section too for the sake of having a resource. This is quite sensitive.

They will get rejected, just like now when rip submissions are not allowed.

There might be a risky shortcut for that; auto-rejecting files with very high filesizes and polies, along with Blizzard data (such as nodes named Blizz_Particle001).

 

[Pharaoh_]

We could then be called a mod & Ripping Community, how lovely.

Eh, now you're exaggerating.

Users will submit their resources under the user Blizzard Entertainment. Blizzard Entertainment's reputation will be possibly blocked, so that everyone's happy. There will be rules regarding optimization and there will also be moderation.

 

[Vinz]

There will be rules regarding optimization and there will also be moderation.

A question, would it be possible to hire mods for this new section? Of course, those modelers (yes, literally, not rippers) who have proven their dedication to the community.

 

[Solu9]

A question, would it be possible to hire mods for this new section? Of course, those modelers (yes, literally, not rippers) who have proven their dedication to the community.

That's a bit soon to start talking about who and how the section will be moderated. Let's see if this section actually gets implemented in the first place.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Depends on whether the current moderators would like to be involved in the process. I wouldn't like to discuss hiring potential without having concluded on the implementation of this section.

Edit: @Solu9,